Harris and Trump Squabble Over Debate Rules as ABC Matchup Looms

The former president derided the network and questioned why he would participate, while the vice president called for each candidate’s microphone to be left on for the entirety of the Sept. 10 event.

During a campaign stop in northern Virginia, Donald Trump raised the possibility of not participating in the presidential debate with Vice President Kamala Harris on ABC News, claiming that the network’s executives and anchors were biased against him.CreditCredit...Roger Kisby for The New York Times

By Michael M. Grynbaum and Maggie Astor

At the weigh-in before a big bout, prizefighters often taunt their opponents in an effort to try to psych them out.

So it goes with the presidential pugilists set to meet next month in the city of Rocky Balboa.

The Harris and Trump campaigns squabbled on Monday over the ground rules of their coming ABC News debate in Philadelphia, with each side trying to score political points off the other. And within hours, the Trump campaign found its argument undermined by an unlikely foil: Mr. Trump himself.

The tussle began on Sunday when former President Donald J. Trump blasted ABC in a social media post, suggesting that the network’s anchors and executives were biased against him and threatening, not for the first time, to pull out of the event. “I ask, why would I do the Debate against Kamala Harris on that network?” Mr. Trump wrote.

Then, on Monday, Ms. Harris’s campaign went public with an effort to change one of the agreed-upon conditions for the debate: that each candidate’s microphone be muted when it isn’t their turn to speak.

“We have told ABC and other networks seeking to host a possible October debate that we believe both candidates’ mics should be live throughout the full broadcast,” Brian Fallon, a spokesman for the Harris campaign, told Politico.

He added a dig for good measure: “Our understanding is that Trump’s handlers prefer the muted microphone because they don’t think their candidate can act presidential for 90 minutes on his own.”

Jason Miller, a spokesman for the Trump campaign, shot back. “ABC offered the exact same debate rules as CNN, and we accepted — as did the Harris camp,” he wrote, referring to the CNN debate between Mr. Trump and President Biden in June, when the muted microphones rule was in effect.

Mr. Miller tossed in a gibe of his own: “Now, after the Harris campaign has begun debate prep, they’re clearly concerned about what they’re seeing from Harris’ performance.”

But when Mr. Trump was asked about the microphone issue by reporters in Virginia, he seemed to back away from the fierce objections of his team.

He told members of the news media that it “doesn’t matter to me” whether the microphones were muted, adding, “I’d rather have it probably on. But the agreement was that it would be the same as it was last time.” Mr. Trump also said that ABC should be “shut out” of hosting the debate, while adding he was still “thinking about” whether he should participate.

When Mr. Biden was the Democratic nominee, his team pushed hard for the muted microphones rule, arguing that Mr. Trump could not be trusted to stay silent when Mr. Biden was speaking.

But Ms. Harris was not in charge of the campaign at that point. Her camp’s reversal on the muting rule seems intended to underscore reports that the vice president’s rise in the polls has rattled Mr. Trump. (Mr. Trump has vociferously denied those reports.) One of Ms. Harris’s standout moments in her 2020 vice-presidential debate came when Mike Pence, on a live microphone, seemed to interrupt her, prompting a memorable rejoinder from Ms. Harris: “I’m speaking.”

Mr. Trump has called for his own variations on the debate rules, urging Ms. Harris to participate in a debate sponsored by Fox News “with a full arena audience.”

For decades, the televised forums were organized by the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates. But this year, the commission was sidelined when Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump agreed to negotiate directly with television networks, and to hold the events earlier than the commission had scheduled. The candidates agreed to a debate on CNN on June 27, and a debate on ABC News on Sept. 10.

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The exact format and ground rules of the ABC debate have been in flux, but both campaigns have broadly agreed to a format similar to that of the CNN debate that took place between Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump. More than 51 million Americans watched that debate live, by far the biggest audience of any political event this year, a sign of how consequential the televised forums can be in a tight presidential race.

ABC’s debate is scheduled to last for 90 minutes and be held at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia. The ABC anchors David Muir and Linsey Davis are the moderators.

Ms. Harris and Mr. Trump have never debated face-to-face. Ms. Harris’s team has signaled it is open to another debate in October, but no plans have been set. Several television networks are jockeying for the right to host that debate if it does ultimately occur.

Michael Gold, Jonathan Swan, Chris Cameron and Reid J. Epstein contributed reporting.

Michael M. Grynbaum writes about the intersection of media, politics and culture. He has been a media correspondent at The Times since 2016. More about Michael M. Grynbaum

Maggie Astor covers politics for The New York Times, focusing on breaking news, policies, campaigns and how underrepresented or marginalized groups are affected by political systems. More about Maggie Astor

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For its part, ABC News declined to comment.

When Mr. Biden was the Democratic nominee, his team pushed hard for the muted microphones rule, arguing that Mr. Trump could not be trusted to stay silent when Mr. Biden was speaking.

But Ms. Harris was not in charge of the campaign at that point. Her camp’s reversal on the muting rule seems intended to underscore reports that the vice president’s rise in the polls has rattled Mr. Trump. (Mr. Trump has vociferously denied those reports.) One of Ms. Harris’s standout moments in her 2020 vice-presidential debate came when Mike Pence, on a live microphone, seemed to interrupt her, prompting a memorable rejoinder from Ms. Harris: “I’m speaking.”

Mr. Trump has called for his own variations on the debate rules, urging Ms. Harris to participate in a debate sponsored by Fox News “with a full arena audience.”

For decades, the televised forums were organized by the nonpartisan Commission on Presidential Debates. But this year, the commission was sidelined when Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump agreed to negotiate directly with television networks, and to hold the events earlier than the commission had scheduled. The candidates agreed to a debate on CNN on June 27, and a debate on ABC News on Sept. 10.

The exact format and ground rules of the ABC debate have been in flux, but both campaigns have broadly agreed to a format similar to that of the CNN debate that took place between Mr. Biden and Mr. Trump. More than 51 million Americans watched that debate live, by far the biggest audience of any political event this year, a sign of how consequential the televised forums can be in a tight presidential race.

ABC’s debate is scheduled to last for 90 minutes and be held at the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia. The ABC anchors David Muir and Linsey Davis are the moderators.

Ms. Harris and Mr. Trump have never debated face-to-face. Ms. Harris’s team has signaled it is open to another debate in October, but no plans have been set. Several television networks are jockeying for the right to host that debate if it does ultimately occur.